Naa. I think it was a pretty obvious move. Although my prediction was that they would tackle film and music before software. They obviously tried but after seeing what a pain in the ass it is to work with hollywood / music industry gave up for now. They renamed "My Games" into "Library" with Games, Media, & Tools subtabs and after giving up on the whole media bit just have "Library" now.
Software is a more logical step considering they're already set up to deliver software (games).
But not all software is created equal: the single-machine sign on limit is OK for games because you'd never try to play two games at once on different computers. But hell if I'm going to buy a copy of TextExpander for my laptop if quits (and needs a password to relaunch) every time I run a game on my desktop.
I'd love to have an alternative to the App Store that doesn't mandate sandboxing and have Apple's mysterious restrictions, but Steam's DRM system is too limiting for me to be comfortable buying "real software" from it.
Exactly like that! But with the toolbar at the top and less of the kitschy storefront skeumorphism. But interface wise, it's still nicer than anything I foresee coming from Valve in the next decade or so.
Bodega really nailed the updates system. It found all of my non-app-store software that was out of date, and handled the updating with one click and a password. It's having trouble with Calibre, but Adium, Transmission, Pixen, BetterTouchTool, and others all worked fine.
Thanks for pointing this out! The only areas I see Steam having an advantage are preexisting users, and the ability to sell cross platform (Mac+Windows+Linux) software.
They also see that their product is an app store, and it is going to get eaten up in the next few years as desktop and mobile OSes converge around security models that will not let unsigned apps from outside the app store onto user devices. This is the same reason they are building out their platform on linux. It may be the largest change they will have to make as a company, to try and convert their entire business away from it's traditional roots as an app (game) store for windows, as windows 8 and further generations introduce tighter security and stricter requirements around app distribution.
The same goes for mac. I'm sure they realized the mac app store was going to kill their business on mac. In a few OS generations, unsigned apps will be unallowed except for the most power users.
This was my initial thought, too. They're in a real pickle though: Is their long-term strategy really to build a platform/ecosystem to compete with Apple, Microsoft, Amazon AND Google? Because that's quite a crowded field, but if they don't build that ecosystem, Steam as a separate line of business for Valve seems like it would have its days numbered.
Only way I can see them getting around that and competing succesfully is if they offer a console-like appliance, which still seems like a huge departure and risk.
I'd love to see movies on Steam, provided they are available worldwide. Amazon and Netflix cater nicely to Americans but the rest of the world has no good alternative.
Very smart move. Windows store will be locked to the OS and Microsoft ecosystem. Mac App Store / iTunes is locked to OSX/iOS. Valve will be cross platform and Linux and more independent. For pricing competition and developer support this is a good competitive future. It is the cross platform angle that Microsoft and Apple can't and won't match.
Maybe Steam-for-Linux is really a stalking horse for Steam-for-Android, and Steam-for-Android has a lot more leverage if you don't have to get your apps somewhere else but can just get them through the same channel you're already getting your games through.
For me the killer feature of Steam for Android would be if they offered Android versions of games I already own the same way I can play all games with Mac builds on Mac.
Although the list of games that exist both on Android and Windows is small I can think of enough games on Steam (GTA3, Max Payne, World of Goo, Osmos, Anomaly, Popcap games, etc.) to make it an attractive feature.
This is the biggest issue I have with the playstore. Outside of the top 100, which are really mostly rather crap apps in my opinion, there seems to be no logical categorization. It's a huge pain to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Or, maybe Steam itself will be the stalking horse for Steam for Linux. It makes absolute sense to me that Steam will push Linux hard, planting a flag on the OS in the eyes of gamers, while simultaneously trying to turn this spike in adoption into good will with the Linux community.
They may be concerned about fragmenting their ecosystem since virtually no apps will be "cross-platform" between Android and the desktop without a significant rewrite.
Another option for Valve to explore would be to check the current state of the DX games in Wine and work with interested publishers on improved compatibility. Then throw money and developers at Wine. When they're happy, wrap it up in the Steam client somehow so its seamless for the user and problem solved. The only real issue would be the spector that MS might figure out some way to sue if it gets too popular.
Isn't WINE just an implementation of Win32 APIs? From that respect, wouldn't the recent Google-Oracle case preclude that from being an avenue for lawsuit?
If they start stocking Mac software, I will be very grateful. An alternative (especially one as established as Steam) to the Mac App Store is sorely needed on OS X..
ME! Christ, I hate the app store. They don't need to do much to improve on it. Also, part of the reason that you can't imagine it is because Steam is currently a games network. Who knows how people might perceive steam in a year? Also, they may make money simply by offering the excellent software that isn't sandboxed: Alfred, Sourcetree, etc.
Plus, I will never release on the app store unless I don't plan on making any money on it. It's simply developer-unfriendly: no trials, no paid upgrades - it's as if Apple is trying to kill off using the Mac to make a living of selling software and force developers into subscription/freemium models.
Doesn't mean even slightly that Steam is a better alternative. It's a horrible launcher and a terrible Mac OS X app. It's a great service and games store and I use it all the time, but as an OS X app it's awful.
It requires you to have "enable access for assistive devices" on just to render its interface. Valve knows absolutely nothing about the platform except what it needs to to make basic ports.
Mark my words, they will not become a viable distribution system in OS X without completely and radically overhauling Steam from the ground up. Just "adding apps" isn't going to do anything.
>Doesn't mean even slightly that Steam is a better alternative. It's a horrible launcher and a terrible Mac OS X app. It's a great service and games store and I use it all the time, but as an OS X app it's awful.
I agree. I'm hoping competition will spur one or both of them to actually make a kickass service.
You only have to "Enable access for assistive devices" for the in-game interface, because it requires directly controlling the hardware. In Windows this is done by dll injection, of which even a similar process isn't possible in any *NIX operating systems.
Linux's LD_PRELOAD system lets you replace some executable's dynamically-loaded symbols with your own implementations, and the OS X "dyld" manpage mentions "DYLD_INSERT_LIBRARIES" which seems to be similar. Is that close enough to "DLL injection"?
Fair enough, that wasn't a great example. However the Steam UI becoming randomly invisible when docked and then undocked, in-app browser constantly breaking, and using their own notifications UI that gets stuck on screen and doesn't offer Growl support are better examples.
Me. I use Windows and Linux in addition, so a cross-system marketplace would have significant appeal to me. The MAS is mostly a dud to me, whereas I waste oodles of money on Steam.
That market is extremely small. Most people don't use applications like that, or OSes like that, nor do devs really offer cross platform applications like that.
I also don't understand why the MAS is a dud and this would be any better. Steam's standards and review process are way more strict and cryptic than Apple's. Plenty of indie devs have felt the sting of Steam rejection. I have little doubt they will also require sandboxing.
Is it just the cross platform aspect? Everything else about it seems to be the same or worse. Not to mention Steam's integration with its host OS is just awful. It's like a completely segmented world rarely following any UI guidelines or making any attempt to fit in.
It says "Coming Soon" on that page, not "Released". That's not how it works at all right now, and moreover what do you need to crowdsource?
If you're a developer and you make an app that doesn't violate the rules of the store, you should be able to submit it. That's how the App Store works.
Having to rally community support with no promise of what the threshold for acceptance is is crazy. Doesn't seem more transparent or less cryptic to me at all.
>It says "Coming Soon" on that page, not "Released".
Note that I said "will" not "does".
>If you're a developer and you make an app that doesn't violate the rules of the store, you should be able to submit it.
You can. That's just no guarantee you'll get in.
>Having to rally community support with no promise of what the threshold for acceptance is is crazy.
Allowing every random to put their garbage up on a trusted store with no vetting is crazier. There's a reason the Google Market is a bit like the wild west. Malware and adware and garbage, oh my!
That was long ago proven to be false, and either way it has absolutely nothing to do with this. Apple would never collaborate with an outside party on an alternate app distribution system. That's ridiculous.
Did I read this right? Did Steam just announce that it was becoming a cross-platform application store? Easy installing / automatic updating sounds nice, given my past experience with Steam games, while a personal Steam cloud sounds very much like an iCloud/Dropbox/Google Drive competitor.
I'm a bit apprehensive about having to decide between Yet Another Storage Provider, but I'm (naively?) hopeful that the open-minded folks at Steam will consider something like Dropbox / Google Drive integration. Valve seems like an incredibly appropriate company to do so.
I hate to play the extrapolation game, but this could potentially encourage cross-platform apps, much like Valve is doing for gaming on Mac/Linux, especially if Valve releases dev tools to help support the process. (Hopefully it doesn't turn into a GTK/Swing nightmare.)
All in all, interesting times should be ahead. It'll be interesting to see how a "gaming" company like Valve adapts to a new field.
I'm not sure where you're getting the Dropbox competitor bit.
Steam has had a storage system for game content for a while—this would let you transfer save game files between computers, for example. I didn't see anything in the story which suggests this would be extended to general purpose content.
Well the press release says right there: "Many of the launch titles will take advantage of popular Steamworks features, such as easy installation, automatic updating, and the ability to save your work to your personal Steam Cloud space so your files may travel with."
I'm assuming my work is more than my save game files. :)
I was complaining a couple weeks ago about how someone needed to open an alternative to the Mac App Store for legit apps that don't work with sandboxing, desire demos or paid upgrades, etc. Never thought of Steam as a possibility, even though I use it weekly for gaming. I have high hopes; if anyone can pull it off, it's Valve.
Just a hunch and I am sure many will decry it as impossible, but I bet that microsoft buys valve in the next 2 years. It will be billed as a "hands off" type of acquisition (similar to skype) where they will simply more deeply integrate steam into other platforms like xbox and surface and keep them independent.
It just makes too much sense for microsoft to buy steam, regardless of the price. I know the steam fans would completely hate it, but it really feels like it is going to happen. Microsoft is dieing to have its own successful app store with a niche to have a advantage on the ios store and gaming/steam is exactly the type of 'we have this, they dont' which could completely make MS phones relevant again.
You don't know much about Steam or Gabe Newell then. They would NEVER sell the company. Gabe's mentioned before he's gotten big offers and rejected every single one. Valve has the highest employee retention rate and satisfaction rate in the industry. There's no managers, no titles, everyone's happy. Only a fool would sell a company like that. And Gabe's not a fool.
Don't let the silicon valley mindset warp your perception of what a company is. There isn't always an IPO or exit at the end of every company's rainbow. Sometimes, just sometimes, profitable private companies stay profitable private companies.
Its not just gabe's thoughts that matter- Many startup founders forget that as you have people who work for you. He has a responsibility to the people working for him- If he gets a offer for some ludicrous amount, does he not owe it to his staff to do whats best for them? Im sure most of the staff would be happier with a few million bucks than not.
And what if MS says "We want to buy you, we promise we wont touch you and will sign these docs to ensure you can keep doing things your way" - At that point, its not about morals, its about the fact that not doing something like that isnt fair to those people in the companies who are not yet millionaires, like Newell already is.
In short, if Newell could guarantee that the company would have no changes moving forward and could also get significant wind falls for all his staff, then yes- I expect him to sell. Anything less would be not prudent.
* Nobody knows if MS would be willing to pay as much as would be required to have a outcome like above. I just think that Valve is in the #1 or #2 spot for "Companies we want to buy" at redmond.
Everyone knows Gabe worked for MS, right? He had a stellar career there before he quit one day to start valve. No way he sells to microsoft. There is no positive aspects for the company, the owners, or the employees.
But the whole point of buying Valve would be to dictate what they can do with Steam. If they're still a distribution platform for Mac and Linux then what's the point?
To add a reference to your comment (good explanation btw), see the recently posted "Why Valve?" post from Valve's economist which contains more information on their corporate structure and philosophy, as well as links to the employee handbook and such.
I agree this makes a lot of sense from a Microsoft perspective, not so sure it makes sense from a Valve perspective. AFAIK it's still a privately held company, Gabe & company seem forward thinking eneough that I could see them telling Microsoft to take a hike no matter the offering price.
Great. I'm looking forward to being able to purchase utilities which I can run no matter what OS I'm booting into. It is constantly frustrating to need to separate copies/licenses on core software, like 1Password, etc.
"The 40 million gamers frequenting Steam are interested in more than playing games"
That's an odd sentence. Is he saying 40 million gamers said they want more than games in their games platform? Or was it just a portion of the 40 million? If so, why not say that number. THE 40 million gamers are interesting in more than playing games? THE 40 million said this? I feel like I stumbled into the smoke and mirrors PR world of EA or Sony, not Valve.
All 40 million gamers do things on occasion that are not video games... If, as a gamer, you already frequent Steam for your games and they also happen to sell non-games that you want.... why not buy from Steam?
He's referring to Infocom's (the Zork/text adventure people) big bet on getting into the non-game space. Infocom spent all this money developing a natural language relational database - Cornerstone - that sunk the company.
Gabe/Valve are also competing against the Apple/Mac OSX App Store, but they aren't speaking out against them.
I sincerely think that Valve has legitimate reasons for deriding Windows 8, particularly since their criticism seems to resonate with many early Win8 adapters.
On the flip side, maybe Gabe/Valve disliked Windows 8 and Microsoft's store, so they decided to build their own because they saw a market for a better store?
I think you missed something... He slammed it as a catastrophe exactly because off the Windows store. Maybe you read a different article than I did, or missed the thrust of it?
What Newell is blatantly raging against is the idea that Windows, in running its own store, will make it more difficult for users to install their own software. No doubt he's chiefly worried about users' ability to install Steam, his store. I felt that was obvious from the onset.
And really? Lost respect for him? For his being an honest business man? And you're on YCombinator?
(Edited for overly mean tone. I don't mean to chastise, I just don't understand what you're saying.)
I recently switched out my primary hard drive; I was able to backup and transfer all my save data by copying save files from my user folder, eg: C:/Users/myname
Seems like what Gabe is doing is what Google wanted to do with Chrome OS...without the OS.
I could definitely see Valve becoming a competitor in this sense with a cross-platform app + document experience that works smoothly on most desktop devices. The question is whether they can expand this sort of system onto tablets and phones.
Is it me, or is Valve gearing up to launch its own Linux distro? With Steam as primary content distribution and app catalogue and a bit of thought and focus-groupery poured in to the UI/UX the same way they design their games, they could own the desktop space in half a decade.
That sounds like good news but the selection process is a bit strange. If I understand correctly, my app needs to be voted into their store by the community but how is the community going to evaluate it before it is in the store?
I once forgot both my Steam password and the associated secret question and had no way to restore it (even though it was linked to my email account). Luckily that account contained nothing particularly valuable...
They'll probably start with basic cross-platform office software (e.g. OpenOffice) and tools that would be useful to game modders (graphics, sound and 3D packages).
I thought Mumble was much more popular? Either way, a Steam-based/integrated voice chat app (i.e. much better than their current voice chat options) would be one of the best Steam features.
Don't forget the only thing that would really change is that there would be non-games on the Steam store.
The entire "product" already exists, they just need to bring non-game titles to Steam. (and from the sound of that announcement it seems they already have something lines up)
Steam will work on Windows 7 and XP unlike the Windows 8 app store. It also runs on OSX and soon Linux. What exactly is Microsoft supposed to do about it?
1) Why so late? If this had come out a couple of years ago, they could've cemented themselves in Windows 7.
2) AFAIK the real reason for Microsoft not making an app store for native apps is that they can install spyware, browser toolbars, change browser home page, change default search provider, eat up battery, install always running services and what not because they're not sandboxed.
How will the Steam store deal with the inevitable barrage of such user hostile apps? Will the approval process be highly exclusionary or inclusionary? Where are the app store terms? What's the cut? 30%?
I think dealing with adware, spyware, malware and grayware is going to be a challenge. If they're pretty exclusionary, expect devs to get pissed off.
3) Sadly Steam Store won't be allowed to include WinRT apps but Microsoft allows links to desktop apps on their app store.
If they solve the malware problem, I think they'll have a huge market and help devs immensely.
Anyone know or remember Intel AppUp Center? It completely failed to take off.
If they're pretty exclusionary, expect devs to
get pissed off.
I don't see any reason to. They are a 3rd-party distribution channel. This isn't Google's AppStore on Android (or Apple's on iOS or Microsoft's on WP7). Sure it might piss of some people, but any decision will piss off some number of people.
This is super awesome news for desktop software developers. I would love to publish my product to Steam - it has me lot more excited than publishing to the Windows 8 app store.
Another cool thing about this, if even for Windows users - is that it may mitigate motivations for upgrading to Windows 8. If Steam becomes the most popular, most profitable place to publish Windows apps - and every app is fully compatible with Windows 7 - they will have 'cemented' themselves quite nicely as milesskorpen would say.
1) From my observations, platforms that did this weren't too successful (e.g. Stardock before turning into Impulse). We were also in a time where the Windows world didn't have a need for it and it's hard to deny that things have changed so much lately that people are expecting more centralised stores of applications.
1)Maybe whatever events that led to them doing this didn't exist 2 years ago.
2)That seems like more reason to have an app store as you can weed that kind of stuff out.
They will use Steam Greenlight a community driven process to vet apps for inclusion. Basically you submit and if the community wants it they get it.
3)Since most PC users will be on Windows 7 and XP for a while after Windows 8 is released there will still be a huge market for Steam even if by some miracle RT just took over.
Asking genuinely... What benefit does yet another marketplace have to offer?
I can see that by being a cross platform marketplace, If I buy something from them on my iPad, I can also use that same software on my PC (assuming both the platforms allow this) But the big question is will they?
One thing to consider is that the Windows app store will be Metro (not sure what to call it now) only. So Steam might be a pretty attractive option for filling the niche of distributing traditional desktop applications.
Being able to keep all my Windows desktop applications updated easily through Steam would be a lot better than having them all try and do it themselves.
The other cross-publisher software managers/marketplaces for Windows apps that I know about are all game-oriented, would-be-Steam-alikes. Is there a comparable marketplace for applications?
Steam already has great community options built in to connect their massive user base (2.9 million currently online) , and sales prices that absolutely cannot be beaten. Not to mention a much better reputation then other online software vendors.
The Windows app store will be Windows 8 only on the desktop so Steam can serve the hundreds of millions of users on the older versions. Also, what marketplace comparable to this offering exists for Windows?
http://www.chrisnorstrom.com/2011/03/re-envisioning-steam-pa...
Naa. I think it was a pretty obvious move. Although my prediction was that they would tackle film and music before software. They obviously tried but after seeing what a pain in the ass it is to work with hollywood / music industry gave up for now. They renamed "My Games" into "Library" with Games, Media, & Tools subtabs and after giving up on the whole media bit just have "Library" now.
Software is a more logical step considering they're already set up to deliver software (games).