See the problem here is you're projecting your feelings about popups (which I totally get, to be clear) onto my business. From a business perspective that's a bad thing to do.
What I've done (and what countless other website owners have done) is operate based on data. I've done a lot of A/B testing of my email capture popup - I've tested content, timing, and whether or not it's there at all. "How many of the 6% fill it out because they think they have to? How many just give you a garbage email address?" Sub 3%. That one's easy to validate, and I've done so.
You're calling it a "slimy sales gimmick" (which I think is somewhat harsher language than necessary), but the reality is most new users who hit my site come in from Facebook ads. I would wager that you and folks of your same mindset about the popup probably see advertising on social media as slimy as well. The people who come to my site clearly don't.
What a lot of HN fails to realize is that the overwhelming majority of the world is not like HN and does not share the beliefs of the typical HN user vis a vis digital advertising, sales tactics, websites, etc.
> You're calling it a "slimy sales gimmick" (which I think is somewhat harsher language than necessary)
I actually don't think that's overly harsh.
> the reality is most new users who hit my site come in from Facebook ads.
And, once again, we see the corrosive effects of Facebook actively making things crappier for the non-FB-using world.
> What a lot of HN fails to realize is that the overwhelming majority of the world is not like HN
I suspect that the vast majority of HN is fully aware of this. That doesn't make our complaints any less valid, though. What's alternative? "Shut up and take it"?
> That doesn't make our complaints any less valid, though. What's alternative? "Shut up and take it"?
I have been very clear in my comments here that these complaints are perfectly valid and reasonably. The alternative is obviously not to "shut up and take it" - it's to do what you're doing and leave sites that do things you don't like. Vote with your digital feet.
My point remains that popups asking people to sign up for an email newsletter exist, and will continue to exist, because a significant enough portion of the population does find them useful (as evidenced by the fact that they give their emails and then later make purchases based on emails they receive), even if folks on HN think that they are slimy or evil or what have you.
"See the problem here is you're projecting your emotions and empathy onto my business. From a business perspective that's a bad thing to do.
What I've done is operate on data. My customers are faceless numbers, not people, and so long as they give me money I don't care about them.
What a lot of HN fails to realize is that the overwhelming majority of the world are suckers who will do whatever advertising convinces them to."
I'm admittedly taking some liberties here, but it grieves me that business is now pretty much "fuck you I've got mine, or I'll do whatever it takes to get it." There must be a better way.
If you think a popup asking someone to give their email address in exchange for a discount is the same as an advertisement convincing people to smoke, then I don't think we're going to have a productive exchange here.
I can believe that. I operate in a little bubble where all ads and annoyances are blocked. I aggressively unsubscribe from every newsletter and set filters for anything that gets through. I patiently went through the settings of every website to max out the privacy settings.
Your average consumer, however, clicks whatever button is blue, enters their email wherever there's an email field, and powers through the ads which are personalised for them. I would not be surprised if the numbers that you described are true, and not just a fluke.
But I chose to build the sort of internet I like. A quiet, straightforward internet that respects consent and privacy. It worked fine for me, so I feel no need to change my ways.
The HN readership truly is unique; nowhere else will you see a community so virulently opposed to advertising/marketing, in an industry (tech) whose largest players have no other way of making money.
What I've done (and what countless other website owners have done) is operate based on data. I've done a lot of A/B testing of my email capture popup - I've tested content, timing, and whether or not it's there at all. "How many of the 6% fill it out because they think they have to? How many just give you a garbage email address?" Sub 3%. That one's easy to validate, and I've done so.
You're calling it a "slimy sales gimmick" (which I think is somewhat harsher language than necessary), but the reality is most new users who hit my site come in from Facebook ads. I would wager that you and folks of your same mindset about the popup probably see advertising on social media as slimy as well. The people who come to my site clearly don't.
What a lot of HN fails to realize is that the overwhelming majority of the world is not like HN and does not share the beliefs of the typical HN user vis a vis digital advertising, sales tactics, websites, etc.