We understand that if you are willing to compromise on the fan and power efficiency, you can get a great machine like your Dell. People with your preferences are well served! The frustration is that there's nothing similar to even an old M1 laptop from other manufacturers. Why not? Apple has shown there's a big market for small, efficient, silent laptops with good displays in the $2500+ range.

Other people in this thread have mentioned a Lenovo Aura as coming pretty close and it does, except for the fan! Is it really that hard to eliminate the fan and get performance / watt numbers like Apple was getting 5 years ago?

In Apple's quest for thinness and quiet they have made lots of undercooled devices that overheat and thermal-throttle and just plain die. That Dell replaced a MBP which replaced another MBP that had to have the motherboard replace 8 times before Apple forced us to sue them in a class action (and we won). If only they had just cooled the thing properly.

>there's a big market for small, efficient, silent laptops with good displays in the $2500+ range.

Yeah, it's called "apple fanboys", people with more money than sense who fetishize slimness and quiet over computing.

The Dell costs less than half the price of a $2500 fanless Apple laptop, so it's really no wonder Apple is forever at ~15% market share - most people prefer to not spend their money on Apple hardware. Price/performance is not what Apple is known for, they are a luxury brand, a status symbol. And that's great if that's what you need, Apple makes a laptop for you.

Assuming everything you say is correct, there are a lot of people with more money than sense. Why is Apple the only company to chase that market?

Apple’s margins are the envy of the industry. Their stores have revenue per square foot numbers that few other retailers can match. Why isn’t there a Dell store across the street from every Apple store? Why doesn’t HP have a machine that goes toe-to-toe with every SKU that Apple sells?

> Apple makes a laptop for you

And, unfortunately, only Apple is making a laptop with those characteristics. My laptop is a ThinkPad because I need Windows and it’s not a very nice computer to use. There’s lots of Linux and Windows people out there who want Apple-like hardware. Some companies copy the superficial aspects, but none copy the internals.

I guess ultimately what I was trying to get at this whole thread is that Framework could make an M1-level machine, right? They just choose not to.

Nobody wants to run Windows on ARM. The software base just isn't there. Framework could make a fanless ARM-based laptop, but few people want those.

We were stuck with a perfectly good x86 MBP that Apple no longer supports, and we had the choice of buying an M-series Apple or buying the Dell. We went for the far cheaper and more powerful option, with a far larger softtware base. Most people do the same.

Apple stores are a place for fanboys to spend money, the stores are part of the corporate luxury persona. Dell and other PC manufacturers don't need retail stores in the age of the internet. And again, Apple is a luxury brand charging luxury prices, it's no wonder fanboys spend a lot of money at their stores, their identity and self-worth depend on it.

No, nobody wants Windows on ARM. At least not until Microsoft gets something like Rosetta up and running.

This whole thread has been about wanting an x86 version of the M1. Intel and AMD have made some great CPUs that should be capable or running fanless and be competitive with five year old Apple computers, right? Since they are older CPUs now, they should be very inexpensive as well.

I don't own an macOS device, but anytime a family member asks me what to get, I tell them to get a Mac because they can go to the mall and either take a class or schedule an appointment for one-on-one help. That's the real value of the Apple store.

I have a hard time taking the luxury brand charge against Apple seriously. The Apple Store is a luxury store in the same way that Applebees is a luxury restaurant compared to Burger King. Nothing they sell is hard to get, nothing is significantly more expensive than what the competition sells (especially if you value in in-store support and resale value), and everything they sell is extraordinarily common, at least in the US. Nobody sees an iPhone or MacBook Air and thinks "oooh! fancy!".

The exception is probably AR device, which is kind of ridiculous.

> In Apple's quest for thinness and quiet they have made lots of undercooled devices that overheat and thermal-throttle and just plain die.

That's a good description of their last few Intel models. M1 does okay, even when it's fanless.

> Yeah, it's called "apple fanboys", people with more money than sense who fetishize slimness and quiet over computing.

Computers get more powerful every year. Not everyone needs to get sustained 100% out of their CPU.

So don't be an asshole about wanting other features.

And the whole point of the request is they're not an apple fanboy.

If you look next to you, you might find Dunning and Kruger

Your low-effort troll should get you banned. If all you do is make an ad hominem attack, then you're the asshole.