>> prison isn't meant to be fun, and being expected to work while doing time is not cruel punishment.
The problem I have with this is that last time I checked, nearly all sentences for people going to prison are incarceration, not incarceration+forced labour. It's the same as people cheering up prison rape because "they deserve it" or "if they don't like it, they should just stop committing crimes". Again, no one is ever sentenced to prison+prison rape, and failing to protect prisoners from each other is a massive failure of the state.
And of course we have to acknowledge that having prison population working for close to nothing creates really perverse incentives, both on the side of the state as well as enterprises employing prisoners. In fact I'd argue that even if you feel that it's entirely fair and deserved you should still be against it to stop incentivising all the nasty shit happening around it. Prisoners should be sitting in prison, they shouldn't be working, or if they are it should be on public works not on anything that the state charges money for.
Respectfully, no it's not. Our society does in theory, and should, recognize a universal right to not be raped. It doesn't recognize, for anyone, a right to not have to work and still be taken care of, with the possible exception of the Royal Family. Though I understand most of their income comes from their historical ownership of vast lands, which is slightly different.
> Prisoners should be sitting in prison, they shouldn't be working,
Why should they only be sitting? Where's the free room and board for those who haven't committed felonies? If we aren't offering a UBI to random non-criminal lazy people, I don't think it's justified to recognize that as a right of prisoners specifically.
Alright, maybe the comparison took it too far but I hope you see my point - the sentence is imprisonment, not imprisonment+X.
>>It doesn't recognize, for anyone, a right to not have to work and still be taken care of
Nonsense - how about the ill and the disabled? Why do we take care of them even if they don't work? Unless when you say "our society" you mean some society that doesn't have that - but then I can't possibly know where you live.
>>Where's the free room and board for those who haven't committed felonies?
Uhm....almost every developed country offers some kind of socialized housing and food stamps if you need them?
>>I don't think it's justified to recognize that as a right of prisoners specifically.
It's not their right - it's ours. We lock them up and they should stay locked up. They should sit in prison all day not because it's their privilege to be sitting around all day bored, but because it's our privilege to walk streets free of criminals - we want them there.
Also observe how even I acknowledged that prisoners could be used for work - any kind of public work where they aren't a danger to society is fine with me. But the moment you introduce a profit motive you are creating breeding ground for corruption and incentives which have absolutely nothing to do with justice.
The problem I have with this is that last time I checked, nearly all sentences for people going to prison are incarceration, not incarceration+forced labour. It's the same as people cheering up prison rape because "they deserve it" or "if they don't like it, they should just stop committing crimes". Again, no one is ever sentenced to prison+prison rape, and failing to protect prisoners from each other is a massive failure of the state.
And of course we have to acknowledge that having prison population working for close to nothing creates really perverse incentives, both on the side of the state as well as enterprises employing prisoners. In fact I'd argue that even if you feel that it's entirely fair and deserved you should still be against it to stop incentivising all the nasty shit happening around it. Prisoners should be sitting in prison, they shouldn't be working, or if they are it should be on public works not on anything that the state charges money for.