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The problem is systems written in the 1970s in FORTRAN to run on Mainframes don't speak JSON.


Great. It should be fixed by replacing the FORTRAN systems with a modern solution. It's not that it can't be done, it's that the engineers don't bother to start the process (which is a side-effect of bad incentive structure at the employment level).


No migration of this magnitude is blocked because of engineers not "bothering" to start the process. Imagine how many approvals you'd need, plus getting budget from who-knows how many government departments. Someone is paying for your time as an engineer and they decide what you work on. I'm glad we live in a world where engineers can't just decide to rewrite a life or death system because it's written in an old(er) programming language. (Not that there is any evidence that this specific system is written in anything older than C++ or maybe Ada.)


That's... not how that works. I take it you're probably more of a frontend person than a backend person by this comment. In the backend world, you usually can't fully and completely replace old systems, you can only replace parts of systems while maintaining full backwards compatibility. The most critical systems in the world -- healthcare, transportation, military, and banking -- all run on mainframes still, for the most part. This is isn't a coincidence. When these systems get migrated, any issues, including issues of backwards compatibility cause people to /DIE/. This isn't an issue of a button being two pixels to the left after you bump frontend platform revs, these systems are relied on for the lives and livelihood of millions of people, every single day.

I am totally with you wishing these systems were more modern, having worked with them extensively, but I'm also realistic about the prospect. If every major airline regulator in the world worked on upgrading their ATC systems to something modern by 2023 standards, and everything went perfectly, we could expect to no longer need backwards compatibility with the old system sometime in 2050, and that's /very/ optimistic. These systems are basically why IBM is still in business, frankly.


Many of them have been upgraded. In the US, we've replaced HOST (the old ATC backend system) with ERAM (the modern replacement) as of 2015.

However, you have to remember this is a global problem. You need to maintain 100% backwards compatibility with every country on the planet. So even if you upgrade your country's systems to something modern, you still have to support old analog communication links and industry standard data formats.


Have you ever been involved in such a migration?

It’s invariably a complete clusterfuck.


I haven't, but I'd love to. My approach wouldn't be very "HR friendly," though.


Ah yes, migration through sheer force of will.


It's trivial. Only took Amadeus hundreds of developers working for over a decade to migrate off TPF. /s

[0] https://amadeus.com/en/insights/blog/celebrating-one-year-fu...


In some sense, yes. Notice that most of the responses to what I've said are immediately negative or dismissive of the idea. If that's the starting point (bad mindset), of course nothing gets fixed and you land where we are today.

My initial approach would be to weed out anyone with that point of view before any work took place (the "not HR friendly" part being to be purposefully exclusionary). The only way a problem of this scope/scale can be solved is by a team of people with extremely thick skin who are comfortable grabbing a beer and telling jokes after they spent the day telling each other to go f*ck themselves.


Anyone who has worked with me knows that I have no issue coming in like a wrecking ball in order to make things happen, when necessary. I've also been involved in some of these migration projects. I think your take on the complexity of these projects (and I do mean inherent complexity, not incidental complexity) and the responses you've received is exceptionally naive.

The amount of wise-cracks and beers your team can handle after a work day is not the determinate factor in success. /Most/ of these organizations /want/ to migrate these systems to something better. There is political will and budget to do so, these are still inglorious multi-decade slogs which cannot fail, ever, because failure means people die. No amount of attitude will change that.


> The amount of wise-cracks and beers your team can handle after a work day is not the determinate factor in success.

Of course it isn't. But it's a starting point for building a team that can deal with what you describe (a decade-plus long timeline, zero room for failure, etc). If the people responsible are more or less insufferable, progress will be extremely difficult, irrespective of how talented they are.


I guess we should rewrite it in Rust.

Airplane logistics feels like one of the most complicated systems running today. A single airline has to track millions of entities: planes, parts, engineers, luggage, cargo, passengers, pilots, gate agents, maintenance schedules, etc. Most of which was created all before best-practices were a thing. Not only is the software complex, but there are probably millions of devices in the world expecting exactly format X and will never be upgraded.

I have no doubt that eventually the software will be Ship of Thesus-ed into something approaching sanity, but there are likely to be glaciers of tech debt which cannot be abstracted away in anything less than decades of work.


It would still be valuable to replace components piece-by-piece, starting with rigorously defining internal data structures and publically providing schemas for existing data structures so that companies can incorporate them.

I would like to point out that the article (and the incident) does not relate to airline systems; it is to do with Eurocontrol and NATS and their respective commercial suppliers of software.




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