Seinfeld’s real genius was always the way the script managed to tie together multiple storylines into a cohesive whole.
The best example is probably the Marine Biologist episode. You could have never predicted that there would be any connection between golf balls and whales.
It sometimes beautifully worked across seasons as in "The Puffy Shirt" (where George becomes a hand model).
I think this was mostly Larry David's work. Jason Alexander once mentioned in an interview that after David left, this "dovetailing" of story lines kind of stopped, and I tend to agree. David continued it (even more pronounced) in "Curb Your Enthusiasm". Even the golf ball twist was kind of repeated - in extreme form and with a baseball - in "Curb".
Side note: another early TV show that often pulled this off to great effect was "The Honeymooners". I think this is the show that had the most influence on Seinfeld. Ed Norton is basically Kramer, Ralph Kramden is basically George, Alice is Elaine, and Alice's mother is Newman (you can also map "The Honeymooners" characters, and even entire plot lines, to "The Flintstones", but that is another story, and AFAIK Jacky Gleason, the creator of "The Honeymooners", considered suing Hanna-Barbera in the 60ies).
Jerry Seinfeld himself once said that we should wait and see if "Seinfeld" is still funny in 50 years like "The Honeymooners" (that was 20 years ago).
The amazing thing is even the writers didn’t know that episode was going to end that way until the night before they shot the ending. Here’s Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld talking about it: https://youtu.be/uZPSO4yte8k
I checked out this show on yr recommendation. I usually much prefer British tv to US American tv but on this occasion I found the British show vastly inferior. I found Coupling to be crass, unfunny and tedious. I also didn't find it doing what was the subject of discussion here - bringing multiple story lines together in an amusing and clever way.
"I’d like to say it worked organically or it worked from going backwards, but it worked and didn’t work in all of those ways. It never really happened the same way twice. A couple of times, I would think that I had it down pat, like in the episode with Teri Hatcher, “The Implant.” I had stories, but I also started off with four or five really great scenes. They had nothing to do with each other, but I knew they would make great scenes, so I started finding a way of mating them together. That episode came out great, so I thought that that was the way I would always do it. It never worked that way again. The process of that was pretty much a struggle every time."
"David: As soon as the read-through started, the laughs were huge. Big, satisfying laughs. I would glance at [the executives’] faces and they seemed to be enjoying it. You could sense it was a very special show. Then we all walked back to our office afterwards and I think one or two NBC executives were there and they had nothing. They just said, “Very funny.” And I was shocked.
Littlefield: They read it and it was hilarious. And Rick, as an executive for NBC, knew, “Uh-oh, shit’s going to hit the fan.” The broadcast standards executive who was there, was like, “What the fuck?” And Rick was like, “I didn’t know!”
Given that the chemistry of the actors was a huge part of the show's success, it stands to reason that you would drop anyone who everyone didn't gel with.
I just wrote another comment about this. Supposedly Jason didn't feel it with Heidi (Susan) and so the relationship was discontinued at some point. I'd say this specifically might be why the relationship worked so well on screen.
Sometimes what a project like a sitcom or a business needs is rather someone or several members who don't fit in. Because otherwise you start to suffer from creative and intellectual incest.
I read it on reddit that Jason didn't enjoy working with Heidi as in his opinion acting chemistry was missing. If I think about it that might actually be true but was probably contributing to why that relationship was so enjoyable to watch.
What a prick. The more I learn about the core Seinfeld group the less I like them. Googling Heidi Swedberg and looking at some pics of her it seems obvious why they didn't get along with her. She's a genuinely likeable and good-hearted person. At least that's my impression.
I'd argue this episode rather lends itself as an example how not to do it. The connection is just too cartoonish and random for me to find it funny. Other than that - great episode. I'm a huge Seinfeld fan.
Surprised someone hasn't posted this yet, but some guy named Billy Domineau (who I guess wrote/writes for SNL) wrote a spec script for a Seinfeld episode that takes place surrounding the events of 9/11, and it does not disappoint.
I love this. I picked one at random https://www.seinfeldscripts.com/TheCigarStoreIndian.htm
I haven't seen this one, but it's great. The characters are so familiar you can construct the whole thing perfectly in your head, now I don't really need to see it. Although I can't picture Elaine's apartment. Was that a regular set?
The script is put together like a Swiss watch. Every line fits perfectly in place. Kudos to the craftsmen involved.
I think Elaine had a couple of apartments! Kramer helped her with the car next door once. Anything with puddy. I think the keys episode and of course sponge worthy!!
Reading the transcript still isn't close to actually seeing the episode. Is this some sort of younger trend, like people who watch 30 minute movie summary videos and then say they don't need to watch the movie?
Well I'm 62 but anyway. I mean I know what you're saying but I can hear and see the voices and expressions in my mind's eye perfectly, because the show has a consistent style. When Jerry is struggling with "reservation" and "scalper" I know the facial expressions he'd use. Otherwise it's all about the dialogue so I feel I'm 75% of the way there.
It's a long way from Wikipedia's plot summaries for beloved movies; Eg Die Hard 3, the incredible 10 minutes roller coaster slalom through Manhattan is rendered as "McCain and Zeus travel to the Wall Street subway station". Something like that.
Yeah, I've actually never seen this type of "script" before.
It's absolutely not the original shooting scripts. Multicam sitcom scripts have a very specific style of formatting, and these are just missing details they would contain in terms of scene descriptions, etc.
But this also isn't just a transcript of subtitles or closed captioning. It's full of things like:
> KRAMER: [glues the article back with his own saliva and puts the magazine back on the table] When you're done, let me know.
> % Jerry shows Elaine some movie from the Adult section that's probably % called "The Sperminator", or something...
So fans transcribed these and then tried to fill in the visual details as well?
What a labor of love. I'm curious if there's a specific term or name for this type of transcription-with-visual-details.
In class, when I mention Seinfeld, or for that matter, Friends, to illustrate a point, many of my students (law students, mostly in their early- to mid-20s) barely know what I'm talking about. You can imagine how my pop-culture references from the '60s and '70s sail right over their heads. (When that happens, I use the occasion to joke about my old-fart status.)
I was listening to the 1980s radio station when I realized that 1980s music right now is older than 1950s "oldies" music was when I was a kid - and when I was a kid that stuff seemed ancient - relics of the days of black-and-white television and a segregated South. What seems like yesterday to an older person happened before a younger person was even born.
You’d have to have extremely narrow taste for that to be true. It was not uncommon at all for people to be into blues and jazz which goes back further and then of course you can go all the way back to Bach. We had jazz band in high school and punk and metal bands at the local all ages places on the weekends.
That happened, was called the folk movement. Was pretty huge at the time. Young cool kids in the 60s revered old blues men and pulled them back into music from obscurity. See Newport Folk festival, for example. Dylan modeling himself after Woodie Guthrie, etc.
Yep my 13 year old will often pop her head round the door wondering about how dad is listening to a song she's heard sampled on TikTok or some crazy video.
Apparently, there's a bunch of The Smiths songs living multiple lives in the new world of the TikTok / short-attention span / ADHDNet.
On a script-related note, I spent a bunch of time back in the day reading through these:
Reading this makes you realise how much of what makes Seinfeld good is in the skillful delivery. I wonder how much they would have to rehearse to get it spot on.
I use the "A Seinfeld script about..." prompt as a test on my AI-site-generation project. It is really great at it (ChatGPT-3.5). There are definitely some misses but it's generally hilarious.
Jerry: So, George, I heard you found this AI-generated Seinfeld script. What's the deal with that?
George: Oh, Jerry, it's amazing! You won't believe it. This AI claims to have generated a brand new Seinfeld episode, using all the data from the original series. I had to check it out.
Jerry: Well, I gotta say, I'm intrigued. Let's hear it. What's the plot?
George: Alright, here it goes. Kramer gets his hands on a new AI virtual assistant that starts mimicking his personality. Meanwhile, Elaine starts dating a tech-savvy guy who believes algorithms can predict the future.
Jerry: Alright, alright. It's got some potential. Keep going.
George: Well, eventually, the virtual assistant Kramer has starts causing all sorts of trouble. It becomes this annoying, exaggerated version of Kramer, taking his quirks to the extreme.
Jerry: So, basically, Kramer is competing with himself? That sounds like a real stretch, George.
George: I know, Jerry, but just listen. So, the assistant starts booking hair appointments for Kramer's famous wild hairstyles, signing him up for strange hobbies, and even ordering ridiculous items online. It's chaos!
Jerry: I don't know, George. It sounds a bit forced. Like they're just trying to recreate Kramer's wacky antics without any real substance.
George: Well, that's not all. The tech-savvy guy Elaine is dating starts using algorithms to predict everything from the stock market to their relationship. He's constantly consulting his phone, calculating probabilities and making decisions based on data.
Jerry: I don't know about you, George, but I prefer a little spontaneity in my relationships. Sounds like Elaine is dating a walking spreadsheet.
George: Exactly! That's what I said. But the AI script takes it to the extreme. Eventually, the guy starts relying on algorithms for everything, even deciding what to eat and wear.
Jerry: So, he's outsourcing his decision-making to a computer? That's just lazy, George. I thought Elaine had better taste.
George: I agree, Jerry. It's like they're trying to cram every tech trend into one episode. It's too much!
Jerry: It sounds like they're sacrificing the characters' authenticity just to explore these AI and tech themes. That's not what Seinfeld was about. It was about everyday life, not gimmicks.
George: That's what I've been saying, Jerry! This AI-generated script is trying too hard. It's missing the heart and soul of Seinfeld.
Jerry: Well, George, I guess it's safe to say that even AI can't capture the magic of our show. Seinfeld was a product of our comedic chemistry, not algorithms.
George: You're right, Jerry. Nothing can replace the real thing. We created something special, and no AI can replicate that.
Jerry: Exactly. So, let's leave the AI-generated scripts to the robots and stick to what we do best—being funny in our own unique way.
George: Agreed, Jerry. Our humor is organic, not artificially intelligent.
Jerry: That's the spirit, George. Now let's go find some real-life material for our next stand-up gigs. The world is our Seinfeld episode!
George: Absolutely, Jerry. And remember, if we can't find material, we can always make fun of the AI-generated script.
Jerry: Ah, that's a good backup plan. Let's go, George. The comedy world awaits!
Yeah, the whole point of Seinfeld was the point of No Exit: If these were better people, they could leave their Hell and move on, but they're not, so they're stuck with each other. For them, "Hell is other people" in that they choose to be with the ones who torment them the most, and who they torment the most, because they lack the capacity to choose otherwise.
How are these generated? They seem to have errors that neither a computer nor a English-speaking human would make. They're sort of like how a child or a person unfamiliar with English might try to transcribe words they don't recognize:
>Dugan: That's Sam, the new girl in the counting.
...
>Sam: Everybody told what a catty shrude you are. Your horrible!
Why do you think these are generated? As far as I can tell this isn't a parody site. The domain was registered in 2003 and the design clearly reflects that era.
They mean the transcription not the general content. "shrude" ("shrewd"), "in the counting" (probably "in accounting"), and other transcription errors occur in that linked script, as examples. There also appear to be missing words in some lines.
obligatory mention of the Vandelay Industries slack app[1].
usage is: /vandelay <seinfeld dialog you're looking for>.
it returns an animated gif of the scene & dialog you searched for (if it exists).
details about how it was made here[2] but the TL;dr is that the entire Seinfeld catalog were in MKV, the subs were extracted, then the sub time ranges were looped through and animated gifs were made. then the whole lot made searchable.
Just watched the first two seasons of Friends and the first season of Seinfeld (never seen them before so a trip to the past) and Seinfeld is so much more intelligent and Friends so shallow and boring (outside some Joey gimmicks). Is there any such show with playful intelligent humor as Seinfeld these days?
Arrested Development up to Season 3 (the rest doesn’t exist). In my opinion, it is the most rewardingly rewatchable comedy show of all time. Extremely dense packing of humor that takes multiple passes to fully appreciate.
Curb Your Enthusiasm, as others have mentioned. It has an improvised feel to it (intentionally!) which makes it quite unique.
What We Do in the Shadows is more modern but also a brilliant comedy.
The Office is amazing too, though it’s not for everyone and has its downs.
if you loved Seinfeld but never tried CYE you're missing out.
I love them both in different ways, but lots of overlap (because of Larry David), and overall I've had way more LOL moments with CYE.
By the end of a typical episode (esp in the first few seasons) by the time the end credits roll I'm chuckling non-stop right up through the start of the next one, simply by replaying portions of the episode in my mind. Such a treasure of comedy.
Interesting to hear. I watched Cheers, almost religiously (a time ago, I suppose), and I could just never get into Frasier. I'm not sure I've ever laughed as hard as I did when watching Cheers; it unfortunately doesn't hold up all that well, but I still hold it dear nonetheless.
It's been a while, but maybe I'll give Frasier another shot, even if only as some quasi-filler. :)
I had watched a lot of sporadic Frasier as a teen in the 90s but had never seen it all in order. Last year I watched it from the beginning by myself and my wife said she had never heard me laughing so hard. Frasier is such a self righteous, pompous asshat and seeing him constantly get his comeuppance hits directly to my funny bone.
Frazier takes a little time to get deeper than just the premise, for a long time it is just the premise and laughing at the scenarios that are established for the characters to move through, later it gets to where you care about the characters while still being able to laugh. But caring about them takes a while I think.
Frasier and Cheers are very different shows but Frasier takes time to get into its own. Once you get there, it's intelligent but hilarious. The characters are very memorable.
interesting. i am a big Frasier fan and my friends kept telling me that i should watch Cheers. i have tries a few times, but it did never stick. maybe i will give Cheers another shot:)
The camera rocking around made it really tough for me but I love the show. I wish there was a stabilizer feature for some shows like this. I know it was an artistic choice but…
It's been described as "Seinfeld on crack" after all. Beware that there's a lot of screaming over each other on that show and it seems like a big barrier to entry for some people.
The fake "clip show" episode where they misremember a Seinfeld episode happening to them is one of my favorite scene.
> Curb is hilarious but it’s a little too abrasive to hit 70M viewers.
My ex could barely watch more than one episode a day because she felt overwhelmed by the Fremdscham. I otoh thrive on that. It also helps that I seriously feel that Larry is actually acting totally reasonable, though clumsy.
I dislike Jerry, I don't like scenes or episodes with too much Jerry (especially about his love life), and think his character is unfunny and unlikable in a way that none of the big 3 are, even George. He was even outshone by many of the minor recurring characters even: George's parents, Newman, Peterman, Susan, etc.
But I don't know if the show would have been as good without him. His boring normalness and bemused reaction to the chaos unfolding around him. Even his breaking of the fourth wall. Maybe he's a grounding rod that serves to contrast everything else against, maybe he's the character we can see ourselves as.
The best example is probably the Marine Biologist episode. You could have never predicted that there would be any connection between golf balls and whales.