> That's bit icky, because "causes harm" is extremely relative. Any negative attitude (or the shadow of a positive one) causes harm to some degree. Wasn't "microagression" a buzzword not long ago?
Just want to chime in on this bit here, since it's a bone I have to pick with society on some level, and your comment is providing a good way to maybe hopefully explain it. (I agree with you btw, just to be clear) Though to start off first, I want to make clear that I don't intend harm or any sort of 'flamewar' with this comment, though I can see how some people might take it out of hand.
Sure, there may be degrees to which harm is caused depending on the situation and context at hand, but we (logically, as I see it) should not be concerning ourselves with the lesser degrees overly much; as it creates a societal numbness to the more important things when rallied against too fiercely.
It's like the old "Boy who cried wolf" story. Sure, there WAS a wolf eventually, and so the villagers should have just listened to the boy anyways perhaps, but because the boy fooled them so many times at lesser levels of potential harm, they failed to believe him at higher levels of potential harm.
And yes, I realize that old story is about lying, but sometimes there are similar parallels in life that fit the stories narrative to some degree. Claiming that something is harming you, when there is no immediately understandable effect beyond getting emotional about whatever that thing is, is basically in and of itself, a lie.
Example: If you insult me, have you harmed me in any way beyond possibly injuring my ego?
My answer is no, because the ego is a personal psychological construct. It sucks, sure, but it's not hurting you in any way unless you are already in a mental state where such things become magnified. (I.E. some type of psychosis for example.)
Anyways. The reason why I bring this up, is because I've seen similar arguments about harm being used in the past to try to degrade and reduce the liberty of others, all because someone feels they have right to be more 'equal' than those others all due to the supposed harm being caused. I don't agree with the notion that one should be able to constitute small infractions against another as 'harm'.
I think this is why some people here are quibbling over the differences between 'benevolant sexism' and what they see as 'real sexism'. It's all ultimately some sort of ism, but some have different connotations depending on how they are applied. Ultimately, it's all stereotyping of some degree or another.
I agree with most of your points in principle, with a caveat. Harming another's feelings does constitute harm, but there is the confounding matter of how much responsibility we place on the individual to avoid such harms. Somewhere between spending our whole lives walking on eggshells and sociopathy is a healthy balance, both for each of us as individuals, and the sum of us as a society. It's fine to disagree where on that spectrum we believe things should be.
In any case, I doubt this was a helpful expansion, just felt important to say.
I think we overall agree then, it's just that society has become the 'walking on eggshells' part of your comment, in an attempt to not be sociopathic, which is part of the problem I am describing; just in different words.
In my opinion as someone who was constantly bullied in school and have had to deal with people through my life who (in a just world) would have been committed to a psych ward to figure out their issues in why they insist on psychologically harming others... I think we as a society are going too far now with being worried about hurting some random persons feelings over things they technically have no right to be offended over. Which is a tricky thing to discuss, because 'right to be offended' is a hard thing for some people to wrap their heads around when all they ever are is offended at everything.
Which is why I bring up the boy who cried wolf story. I think it suits the situation, since these people are essentially crying wolf at what the rest of society sees as 'nothing'.
Anyways, don't worry about whether or not something is a helpful expansion when discussing these things with me. Sometimes what ends up being the case is we actually agree on many points; but our lexicon differs. That's helpful because others will too, which means now both parties are giving a description that different people will now understand (hopefully) more accurately.
Oh believe me, I know. I don't know about you, but I've been having to deal with these people for over 2 decades now, with only a few moments of respite.
I can't begin to tell you how much I have to say on this subject. I've already written and deleted multiple paragraphs due to the potential of my words being against this sites rules.
Just want to chime in on this bit here, since it's a bone I have to pick with society on some level, and your comment is providing a good way to maybe hopefully explain it. (I agree with you btw, just to be clear) Though to start off first, I want to make clear that I don't intend harm or any sort of 'flamewar' with this comment, though I can see how some people might take it out of hand.
Sure, there may be degrees to which harm is caused depending on the situation and context at hand, but we (logically, as I see it) should not be concerning ourselves with the lesser degrees overly much; as it creates a societal numbness to the more important things when rallied against too fiercely.
It's like the old "Boy who cried wolf" story. Sure, there WAS a wolf eventually, and so the villagers should have just listened to the boy anyways perhaps, but because the boy fooled them so many times at lesser levels of potential harm, they failed to believe him at higher levels of potential harm.
And yes, I realize that old story is about lying, but sometimes there are similar parallels in life that fit the stories narrative to some degree. Claiming that something is harming you, when there is no immediately understandable effect beyond getting emotional about whatever that thing is, is basically in and of itself, a lie.
Example: If you insult me, have you harmed me in any way beyond possibly injuring my ego?
My answer is no, because the ego is a personal psychological construct. It sucks, sure, but it's not hurting you in any way unless you are already in a mental state where such things become magnified. (I.E. some type of psychosis for example.)
Anyways. The reason why I bring this up, is because I've seen similar arguments about harm being used in the past to try to degrade and reduce the liberty of others, all because someone feels they have right to be more 'equal' than those others all due to the supposed harm being caused. I don't agree with the notion that one should be able to constitute small infractions against another as 'harm'.
I think this is why some people here are quibbling over the differences between 'benevolant sexism' and what they see as 'real sexism'. It's all ultimately some sort of ism, but some have different connotations depending on how they are applied. Ultimately, it's all stereotyping of some degree or another.