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[flagged] Bitcoin breaks above $20k for the first time ever (cnbc.com)
56 points by johnyzee on Dec 16, 2020 | hide | past | favorite | 37 comments



Hmm, I don't really mess with cryptocurrencies any more but I do have a $15/wk BTC buy and I've put in just under $500 since around April and now my balance is ~$910 which is nice. I'm still smacking my head on my desk for formatting my HD that had 100BTC on it back in 2009 that I CPU mined myself (that wasn't even worth $1 total at the time). To be fair I'm certain I would have sold at $4/$8/~$100 so it's not like I would have $2M now haha.


The last few months bitcoin was already breaking ”all time highs” (in total market cap).

In other respects, ₿ is not even close to breaking all time highs, like the RHoDL indicator: https://studio.glassnode.com/metrics?a=BTC&category=indicato...


Why is the RHoDL indicator more relevant than others?


What would be your advise on investment at this stage?


Just a warning based on the past.. those who buy now will see huge drop in value. Setting a record usually is a good time to cash out a bit.


This would have been terrible advice in 2017 when BTC broke past it's previous ATH of $1300.00. Not saying BTC is going to 10x from here, but a true warning from the past would be not to sell.


Because there's no upper limit to what someone will pay you for a random number backed by no assets.


You just described the entire financial system. Everything other than gold or a house falls into this category.


That is a false statement. For one thing, gold is not a productive asset; for another a house is not spectacular investment.


It would have been when it hit 10,000 and dropped below 5,000 for awhile. Depends on when you cash out.


The whole "you can't use the past to predict the future" thing goes both ways. It's pretty poor form to give unwarranted investment advice based on ignoring one of the few steadfast principles in finance.


inflation adjusted, much needed until ATH :)


ATH = all-time high


real USD is losing value to BTC lol

i don't envy the americans, they are not ready for what's about to come

insert_mushroom_emoji

ask yourself why people are leaving california for texas (center)


Plot tether market cap against BTC price. They appear to print USDT with no oversight. I fail to see how this is sustainable.


Tether is backed 1:1 with USD in traditional bank accounts. Some of it may still be seized and held by the US government, not sure if that's been resolved yet.

USDT also trades freely on open markets against USD. If USDT was being printed without USD backing then those markets would decouple.


[Citation needed]


It doesn't take much effort to verify these claims.

But it's not worth my time digging it up for you.

If you don't want to believe it, then don't. Doesn't make a difference to me.


> It doesn't take much effort to verify these claims.

Please verify your first claim and I'll admit I was wrong.


can you explain me the link between USDT and BTC ?



USDT is another "cryptocurrency". I put that in quotes as they can print it at their leisure. They claim to be backed by USD but have never been audited. The market cap grows by billions a month.

BTC and USDT is a common trading pair on crypto exchanges.

As a result, those behind USDT can print it and buy BTC to manipulate the price.

Don't get me started on exchanges allowing you to trade with yourself. This field is tainted with shady practices.


How hard?

People are buying and selling tons of BTC with USDT and if it ends up being a fractional reserve and has been printing billions with nothing backing it up, how much of the BTC price might've come out of thin air?


Exactly! It's not sustainable at all and the downfall of Bitfinex/Tether will be a very big one for the cryptocurrency space.


If anyone is ready to stop asking "why" and start asking "how", there is an extremely fast paced and lucrative economy you can be participating in.

Pretty much every position pays more in the crypto space (with a huge exception being for VC backed startups, so just close the job board tab it doesn't apply here).

You can make more money just babysitting chatrooms.

And multiple orders of magnitude more than that doing actual development.


Could you share some places to find those?


Telegram, WeChat, Discord. You can also use some trending search strings on github, because you can find the project's repositories, from there you will eventually find their chat rooms.


Hasn't the drop in value at the beginning of the year shown that bitcoin doesn't have an inherent value?

The price just reflects how much people want in and out.

It seems like many people expect the dollar to collapse, so many people want in. When all of those people have exchanged their dollars for bitcoins, who is going to exchange them next? If no more people are in line, the value will drop back to where it was at the beginning of the year.

The beauty of a fiat currency is that you can maintain its value simply by adjusting supply. Is there any sign that there is an over-supply of dollar which would justify leaving the dollar until it is crashed?


An asset being speculated on does not rule that it does not have inherent value. Every asset has a speculative component, just look at the stock market.

> The beauty of a fiat currency is that you can maintain it's value simply by adjusting supply.

There is very little attractive about the idea that a group can devalue currency on a whim. That's exactly why people opt in to Bitcoin.

> Is there any sign that there is an over-supply of dollar which would justify leaving the dollar until it is crashed?

Yes. Have you seen M1[1] this year?

[1] https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/embed/?s=unitedstamons...


>There is very little attractive about the idea that a group can devalue currency on a whim.

You can turn this around: There is very much attractive about the idea that a group can maintain the value of a currency on a whim.

>> Is there any sign that there is an over-supply of dollar which would justify leaving the dollar until it is crashed?

> Yes. Have you seen M1[1] this year?

There is definitely more supply, but is it too much? Can't this be the result of decisions that maintain the value?

If that money is just somewhere on the books, but people don't have more money to spend, then the value of things remains stable.

The value of money depends not only on the amount of available money but also on the velocity with which it is spent. As far as I know, credit cards have increased the velocity by which people are spending money which increased the supply of money and stimulated the economy.

Now, during this crisis, do people spend money with the usual velocity? If not, then that reduced speed has to be compensated by supplying more money.


Congratulations you just described every commodities market.

This is a limited supply asset that inherits some properties of all other asset classes, some better now, some better after software updates.

Cyclical volatility is not controversial amongst commodities traders. Bitcoin happens to attract a lot of stock market traders though, who gain confidence by listening to other stock market traders, which is weird.


> Hasn't the drop in value at the beginning of the year shown that bitcoin doesn't have an inherent value? The price just reflects how much people want in and out.

By that logic, there is no maximum either.


Only in an artificial situation.

Usually, the value of all bitcoins combined shouldn't be able to exceed the value of all assets of all economies. What could you buy with those coins if not those assets?

You can achieve an arbitrary value though if somebody needs to buy an arbitrary small fraction of a bitcoin for some value. But that would only happen if e.g. someone's life depends on acquiring that small fraction.


Hmm, you may be right. Perhaps the maximum for Bitcoin is the value of all assets of all economies. But then you would be leaving out the service sector ;)


If it starts to crash where would anyone reel in the supply of fiat _from_ in order to tighten the supply? The stimulus is the only thing keeping people afloat right now.


How about taxes and increased interest rates?


That would actually lower economic activity overall which would cause even more pain than people are in right now. Also with the worsened economic conditions the overall tax income even at the higher rates would fall leading for either the need for more stimulus/dollar creation or even worse pain.

It's not going to be quick or easy even getting back to a balanced state, much less actually getting to the point where the money supply can shrink.




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