The problem with vocational training that /r/personalfinance and similar forums trumpet is that it often points directly to manual labor which leads to severe physical decline and often injury. I hope industries such as plumbing, welding, HVAC, construction, etc. have improved and now teach best practices for safe lifting, mandatory physical therapy, and enforce them - but I don't think they do.
Effectively what we're telling people is: you can make decent money with these jobs but you'll have to endure pain which all those kids goofing off in college will never have to go through. Making one class of people go through pain, and the other not, seems like dual-class citizenship. De-stigmatizing blue collar jobs is important but we have to try to make them more equal to white-collar jobs first.
I see this argument, about physical demands, a lot, and I don't understand how it's coherent. Somebody is going to do these jobs. Is the argument that it's not fair for kids who could go to college to be that person?
> Is the argument that it's not fair for kids who could go to college to be that person?
Spot on. When I make that argument its from the perspective of me at 18 with the options to do either. I think you're making an important counter point that many don't have the option to begin with, due to money, citizenship, parental/child care, relationships, illness, education level, etc. - although scholarships heavily target most of those demographics.
Your kids are your kids. While you as a single person may not do much to improve working conditions across society, you can improve your kids' future by steering them towards less physically demanding jobs.
Especially people who do physical work themselves try to make sure their kids won't have to. E.g. my grandparents, who were simple village folks working in the fields, made sure to support their kids in getting educated. (Despite all its nastyness, one of the few good things about socialist Hungary was that this kind of upward mobility was possible and encouraged).
The idea that people shouldn't do demanding physical work, and that everyone should to the best of their ability make sure their own kids don't, doesn't seem to me like a good way to structure a society.
My uncle was an electrician (he's retired now), and so is one of his sons, and they both seem pretty happy with their lives. Happier than a lot of tech workers I know.
Most individual people don't try to structure society, they try to improve their and their families' lives.
I don't fault anyone for not sacrificing themselves for the greater good of society at large.
And yes, for sure, there can be shitty, stressful and low-paid office jobs and fulfilling, well-paid physical work. If someone finds an example of the latter, I see no reason why they wouldn't recommend it to their kids.
But can you make much money doing many of these trades? Pulling up glassdoor for several jobs typically parroted as "high paid" show you maxing out at $40k-$50k at the very most without niche specializations. And that's with a decade+ of experience. The pay for the entry level / apprenticeship work is insulting and you could make that at a call center. At least in my area that's what I've seen.
Electricians have a median pay of $55,000 which is a good bit higher than the average pay of $38,000. And I don't think anyone is recommending kids become electricians instead of petroleum engineers but maybe instead of history majors/baristas.
Call center is also entry level, so I don't know why an entry level electrician should get paid much more than what someone at a call center makers.
Jobs that involve typing and computer use for extended periods of time will often lead to pain and health problems. It's not a quality unique to blue collar jobs.
I agree, but white collar jobs often afford the opportunity to bugger off for 20 minutes and get a coffee, stretch, etc., where as a line job with time cards may lack that. There are often more resources spent on i.e. chairs, standing desks, even in-office physical therapy, as well (IMO).
Effectively what we're telling people is: you can make decent money with these jobs but you'll have to endure pain which all those kids goofing off in college will never have to go through. Making one class of people go through pain, and the other not, seems like dual-class citizenship. De-stigmatizing blue collar jobs is important but we have to try to make them more equal to white-collar jobs first.