Ok cool i just wanna leave a choice snippet from the vice coverage of the emails here so we can all be on the same page about what we're doing devils advocate for here:
> Early in the thread, Stallman insists that the “most plausible scenario” is that Epstein’s underage victims were “entirely willing” while being trafficked. Stallman goes on to argue about the definition of “sexual assault,” “rape,” and whether they apply to Minsky and Giuffre’s deposition statement that she was forced to have sex with him.
> In response to a student pointing out that Giuffre was 17 when she was forced to have sex with Minsky in the Virgin Islands, Stallman said “it is morally absurd to define ‘rape’ in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was 18 years old or 17.”
These are totally reasonable things normal people say!
> Epstein’s underage victims were “entirely willing” while being trafficked
Vice is taking a quote of only two words out of context. Stallman was saying that Epstein was coercing his victims to present to Minsky that they were "entirely willing". Basically what pimps do. Stallman's argument was that Minsky was a victim of Epstein's pimping.
I don't agree at all with Stallman's conclusions or way of thinking (and from all the other independent reports of his behavior, he should have been reprimanded for his approaches decades ago), but Vice is just peddling pure yellow journalism, you can't trust their reporting.
Those snippets are just not enough information, to judge someone "normal" or not.
(assuming "not normal" means sick in a clinical or criminal way)
Because, to that sentence:
“it is morally absurd to define ‘rape’ in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was 18 years old or 17.”
I would agree.
I simply define "rape" as sex that was enforced, usually with physical violence or threat of it. Or maybe existential threats of other kind.
Mixing that term with consensual sex with a 17 year old is not helpful to actual victims of rape, I believe.
Consider a couple of both 17 ... all ok. Now one of them turns 18 and now their relationship is rape? That does not make sense.
Now there is surely a difference between 17 with 18 and 17 with 70, but I really believe it is not the same category as "rape". Exploitive maybe, depending on the situation. And if in the concrete situation it was actually not consensual, than it also actually might have been rape. I simply don't know that situation and trying to make sense of it. But that small sentence from RMS alone does not justify any witch hunt.
And to those claim:
"Stallman insists that the “most plausible scenario” is that Epstein’s underage victims were “entirely willing” while being trafficked."
I would like a actual quote from RMS, that he actually said that.
This is a good demonstration of the larger dynamic. When asked for facts, you reposted the blatant slander by Vice. Ten minutes of reading would have gotten you a primary source, yet you're still acting on Vice's sensationalized falsehoods.
(Maybe this will end up with a second organization for Free software funded by a hefty settlement from Vice Media et al. One can hope!)
> Early in the thread, Stallman insists that the “most plausible scenario” is that Epstein’s underage victims were “entirely willing” while being trafficked. Stallman goes on to argue about the definition of “sexual assault,” “rape,” and whether they apply to Minsky and Giuffre’s deposition statement that she was forced to have sex with him.
> In response to a student pointing out that Giuffre was 17 when she was forced to have sex with Minsky in the Virgin Islands, Stallman said “it is morally absurd to define ‘rape’ in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was 18 years old or 17.”
These are totally reasonable things normal people say!