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Why is a search warrant on electron data not comparable to a search warrant for some physical documents?


Because they aren't the same kind of "thing". Data isn't manifested in physical space in the same way as "my house" is.

For one, my home is in one physical place. A bad actor needs to at least get to me, to... you know, get to me. With my data, if it's open to be seen, it's open to people in China, Russia, and on the moon as well. It's not limited to my government.

Second: When the police are given a warrant to my house, I can be there, and I can observe that only actual police officers are entering my home. Data doesn't have any kind of global logging and auditing system like that. Any particular system may or may not log or audit access, but it's not a sure thing. Once it's accessible, once again, I have no way of knowing who actually accessed it.

Third: As WiseWeasel mentioned, I would argue that in the modern world, having access to my data isn't like having access to my home. It's like having access to my mind. My phone knows everything: My intimate conversations with my wife, where I go shopping, what I buy, what my political opinions are, every single photo I've taken in the last 10 years (Which in large part means: Knowing every single place I've been in the last 10 years), my financial transactions, and much more.

If the cops cannot get a search warrant to forcibly read my mind, I don't think it's reasonable they should be able to see my data either.

Fourth: It encroaches on the privacy of others. Generally speaking a warrant for my stuff, is because I am suspected of things. My neighbor isn't also searched because they happen to be near me. But plenty of the data in my life (Especially in the context of conversations) isn't just my data, it's the data of my conversation partner too. Who is now having their data investigated, without knowing it at all (And depending on where they are from, do the local cops in my own even have jurisdiction over the data of my friend in Europe?).

I could go on, but I think I've made my point: Data is not "a thing", it's an entirely different plane of existence. And we need lawmakers that understand that, and are ready to tackle the real challenges that it undoubtedly is, to write reasonable legislature about data.

What we currently have, is a bunch of people trying to fit this new square data peg, into their existing round hole legislature.


Perhaps it’s a gross oversimplification, but I imagine there will come a day when we can finally interface our brains directly with computers. When that day comes, what will prevent those in power from getting a warrant for your brain? This is the logical end of the road breaking encryption leads to. Just like the metaphor of opaque walls, this too should have an obvious answer to the layman.


I sure hope I don't live if / when that time comes.


I'm with you there!


As our personal devices increasingly augment our capabilities, we will only feel more violated when their access is beyond our control.


It is if the physical documents are hidden somewhere in a vast area. A search warrant isn't magic, it can't find the documents.


They have money so they are being sued.


Are there many examples in the real world of this actually happening?


Countless.

Here's [1] an example of the Board pursuing a company and their Professional Enigneers for an org structure that facilitated signing off of engineering work without satisfying the 'direct supervision' clause of the act. Specifically, the guy signing it off was based about 1500 km away from the team doing the work, and the head of the team doing the work, who was in reality supervising it, was not qualified to do so as a Professional Engineer.

As a second example, the coroner's investigation into the Dreamworld fatalities from a few years ago came out just last week [2,3]. In it the coroner recommended that the Board of Professional Engineers investigate the engineering firm that signed off the certification for the ride, over potential gross failures of practicing with due diligence. This may result in the approving Professional Engineer having their license to practice revoked.

[1]: https://www.queenslandjudgments.com.au/case/id/76335

[2]: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-24/dreamworld-accident-i...

[3]: https://www.smh.com.au/national/queensland/dreamworld-inques...


The discipline notices for these sorts of organizations are always public. You can browse through the cases on their website [1]. Most of the enforcement actions against licensed professional engineers in Oregon seem to be for failing to complete their required professional development hours (e.g. [2]), though I did find an interesting case of a P.Eng. who was sanctioned for revealing client data [3].

[1]: https://www.oregon.gov/osbeels/rulesstatutes/Pages/Disciplin... [2] https://www.oregon.gov/osbeels/Documents/FinalOrders/2019111... [3] https://www.oregon.gov/osbeels/Documents/FinalOrders/2019071...


Yeah, looking at the lists of violations makes it pretty clear that the system is obsolete. These are the same people that claimed they could fine every single engineer working at Intel for not technically being certified.


I'm sure that if they actually started going after people, everyone's job title would magically shift to "Technology Developer" or something similar.


Close to home... yes, the FIU bridge engineers could have been charged with manslaughter (https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article23659748...)


I'm pretty sure anyone that works on something that kills people "could" be charged manslaughter. The entire PE system seems antiquated and obsolute.


Yes but that has nothing to do with the State Board of Engineering Examiners or whatever Florida's equivalent is.


I didn't realize that one's knowledge and skill is a function of location.


Different locations have different engineering codes. This is in part why US states do not recognize each other's PE assignations.


I can understand why he couldn't be hired as a licensed engineer because of that, but that doesn't make him not an engineer. He wasn't arguing over something that relies on local standards anyway. A second is a second regardless where you are.


FWIW, there are different types of seconds. Eg, Universal time seconds based on the Earth's rotation, and atomic clock seconds based on consensus. And leap smear seconds are variable length seconds to help merge one into the other. https://developers.google.com/time/smear


It's not too late to learn. Just start playing around with stuff


Yeah. You could take just a single intro to cs class (or c)and go from there. Programming has so much demand you can start later in life than probably any other field.


Or (more likely) because they are not allowed to by policy.


Or because the machine won't tell them why because privacy. (Although this applies less in the ad side of the business than consumer facing bits)


But we do know AWS's operating margin which is 29%. Spending a little to gain market share in a high margin business seems sound to me.


20% over the top of the market value.


Not every employee that is hired is really top tier, there are probably some average people that get through. Also people can get lax and complicit.


Also googlers are sometimes useless outside the Plex. Because of their tendency to religiously reproduce processes that they know so well. And tendency of these processes not to work outside.


It's not like any one uses hadoop or kubernetes and has any success am I right?


Amazon lets people go regularly, I don't get what the issue is.


Amazon doesn't have a reputation for shutting down projects, and no one has any reason to doubt Amazon's long term ability to execute on a cloud platform.


Google has recently had a leak about potentially cutting cloud. Afaik Amazon hasn't.


But isn't Cloud their biggest growth opportunity ?


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