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Software is the connective tissue of the world, generating mediocre quality results (which will be the best outcome if you don’t really understand what you are looking at) is not just lazy it can be dangerous, do the worlds best engineers make mistakes? Of course they do, but that’s why building high quality software is collaborative process you have to work with others to build better systems. If you aren’t, you are wasting your time.

As of now (and this could change, but that doesn’t change the moral and ethical obligations), software engineers are richly rewarded specifically because they should be able to write and understand high quality code, the code written is the foundation of how our entire modern world is built.


Real quiet in here on the comments, can’t figure out why he’s acting like this right?

Maybe because he’s attacking the country on behalf of some other world power

Just common sense


People give up on commenting on this stuff, since the threads are silenced and flagged very quickly.


I call this the "nobody goes there anymore it's too crowded" theory of HN threads: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que....

"This stuff" is by far the most-discussed stuff on HN in the last couple months. Nothing else comes close.

Below, I've pasted a partial list. That's restricted to just muskdogeness and only the biggest threads. There are 25,000 comments in those threads alone.

How this translates into "the threads are silenced" and "people give up on commenting" is left as an exercise to the reader.

---

The NIH is being slashed and burned, not "reformed" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43227180 - March 2025 (164 comments)

A Letter to the American People - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43224350 - March 2025 (440 comments)

GSA Eliminates 18F - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43221549 - March 2025 (373 comments)

A DOGE staffer appears to be posting DOGE work on his public GitHub - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43217947 - March 2025 (348 comments)

US Forest Service firings decimate already understaffed agency - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43193366 - Feb 2025 (128 comments)

FDA meeting to pick next winter's flu shot is canceled, in ominous sign for US - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43189999 - Feb 2025 (120 comments)

DOGE will use AI to assess the responses of federal workers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43171265 - Feb 2025 (185 comments)

Disclosure of personal information to DOGE “is irreparable harm,” judge rules - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43167579 - Feb 2025 (150 comments)

Everyone at NSF overseeing the Platforms for Wireless Experimentation is gone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43166830 - Feb 2025 (547 comments)

Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43152470 - Feb 2025 (113 comments)

It is no longer safe to move our governments and societies to US clouds - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43150085 - Feb 2025 (799 comments)

Ask HN: Do US tech firms realize the backlash growing in Europe? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43139172 - Feb 2025 (295 comments)

DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43138238 - Feb 2025 (1457 comments)

SpaceX engineers brought on at FAA after probationary employees were fired - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43127819 - Feb 2025 (133 comments)

Every .gov Domain - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43125829 - Feb 2025 (265 comments)

Treasury agrees to block DOGE's access to personal taxpayer data at IRS - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43121306 - Feb 2025 (170 comments)

DOGE puts $1 spending limit on government employee credit cards - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43120231 - Feb 2025 (692 comments)

DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43112084 - Feb 2025 (1668 comments)

Doge Claimed It Saved $8B in One Contract. It Was $8M - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43101757 - Feb 2025 (124 comments)

A SpaceX team is being brought in to overhaul FAA's air traffic control system - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43101009 - Feb 2025 (146 comments)

"Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43098705 - Feb 2025 (1279 comments)

USDA fired officials working on bird flu, now trying to rehire them - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43097709 - Feb 2025 (179 comments)

US government struggles to rehire nuclear safety staff it laid off days ago - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43066182 - Feb 2025 (789 comments)

Are DOGE's Claims of Social Security Payments to 150-Year-Olds Way Off Base? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43056993 - Feb 2025 (108 comments)

Anyone can push updates to the doge.gov website - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43045835 - Feb 2025 (1124 comments)

USAID funding freeze disrupts global tuberculosis control efforts - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43038727 - Feb 2025 (119 comments)

DOGE Has Started Gutting a Key US Technology Agency - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43037426 - Feb 2025 (180 comments)

DOGE staffer is trying to reroute FEMA funds - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43036042 - Feb 2025 (285 comments)

DOGE as a National Cyberattack - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43035977 - Feb 2025 (211 comments)

NOAA's public weather data powers the local forecasts on your phone and TV - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43018643 - Feb 2025 (113 comments)

Teen on Musk's DOGE team graduated from 'The Com' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42981756 - Feb 2025 (1801 comments)

Announcing the data.gov archive - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42970039 - Feb 2025 (132 comments)

Elon Musk's Demolition Crew - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42968430 - Feb 2025 (345 comments)

DOGE staffer resigns over racist posts - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42966412 - Feb 2025 (105 comments)

DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42951458 - Feb 2025 (381 comments)

20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42950790 - Feb 2025 (548 comments)

What's happening inside the NIH and NSF - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42940257 - Feb 2025 (1536 comments)

Onlookers freak out as 25-year-old set loose on Treasury computer system - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42936421 - Feb 2025 (133 comments)

Payments crisis of 2025: Not “read only” access anymore - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42933219 - Feb 2025 (654 comments)

Words flagged in search of current NSF awards - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42932760 - Feb 2025 (155 comments)

The young, inexperienced engineers aiding DOGE - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42910910 - Feb 2025 (2990 comments)

CDC: Unpublished manuscripts mentioning certain topics must be pulled or revised - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42905937 - Feb 2025 (721 comments)

CDC data are disappearing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42897696 - Feb 2025 (589 comments)

Musk aides lock government workers out of computer systems at US agency - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42892278 - Jan 2025 (125 comments)

NSF starts vetting all grants to comply with executive orders - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42886661 - Jan 2025 (488 comments)

Archivists work to save disappearing data.gov datasets - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42881367 - Jan 2025 (238 comments)

US pauses all federal aid and grants - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42851248 - Jan 2025 (485 comments)

'Never seen anything like this' – NIH meetings and travel halted abruptly - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42817910 - Jan 2025 (111 comments)

NIH hit with freezes on meetings, travel, communications, and hiring - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42798960 - Jan 2025 (440 comments)


Yup, they're permaflagged and HN knowingly lets them go by even though they could do differently. Case in point: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43208973. Seems exceedingly likely that this one too would've gotten auto-perma-flagged, but then a button was pushed to undo this as a one-off that is not applied to all these other cases. Of course @dang is free to prove us wrong and explain the discrepancy.


As I said in my sibling comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43227619), this stuff has been by far the most-discussed on HN in recent weeks. Nothing else comes close.

I I listed 49 threads in that post. If we throw in the thread you mention (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43208973), that's 50 threads with over 30k comments.

That's an underestimate though, since the list is far from comprehensive. Let's conservatively bump the number up to 40k comments. That's over 1000 comments a day and well over 10% of the total comments that have been posted to HN during this period.

From my perspective that's not the same as "letting it go by".


Hmm, that's interesting dang. I'm almost never seeing any 'muskdogeness' posts (nice name !) on the first page. I'm looking at new posts, with showdead = True.

Would you have a stat on all those posts, if they were flagged at some point, and then un-flagged later ?


I looked at the frontpage time of those 50 threads and it adds up to almost exactly 300 hours on the front page. That's a lot of hours.

But it was over a total time span of 900 hours, so still pretty easy to miss all 50 threads. This is the way the HN frontpage works: no one sees everything that makes the front page (not even us), and it's entirely possible to miss the largest threads and most-discussed topics.

For example, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43208973 is by now the second-largest thread in HN's history and spent 16 hours on the front page, but there are still going to be thousands of regular HN readers who never saw it, and some of those will probably feel angry about that and say that it has been "silenced" and "censored" and so on. That's the way this works.

Ultimately, it works that way because of fundamentals, meaning there's not much we can do about it. The solution is not to have 100 threads with 80k comments on the frontpage for 600 hours, instead of 50 threads with 40k comments for 300 hours, even though that's probably what most people who feel frustrated probably think they want. Rather the solution is to articulate the principles by which HN operates, and keep sticking to those principles over time.

I've been posting a ton about that in recent weeks, although (by the same dynamic I just described!) many readers won't yet have seen any of those posts. Here are two entry points:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43130700

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42911011


You can also look at https://news.ycombinator.com/active

and note that

GSA Eliminates 18F (nextgov.com) 471 points by patcon 15 hours ago | flag | 412 comments

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43221549

is an much earlier version of this submissions story .. and still actively being commented upon.


What's the 'active' page ? Wasn't aware of it.


'Active' with respect to comment churn.

Might not be the front page but it's where all the comment turnover is happening.

In many ways the opposite of well paced deeply considered exchanges.


It's on the /lists page that's linked in every HN footer: https://news.ycombinator.com/lists.


It's quiet in here because there's active discussion in other threads:

GSA Eliminates 18F - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43221549 - March 2025 (373 comments)

A Letter to the American People - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43224350 - March 2025 (440 comments)


He's acting like this because he campaigned on "government bad". Not any specific bit of it: all of it.

It is often theorized that he's doing this on behalf of some foreign power. That seems unlikely, and more to the point, uninformative. He was democratically elected: a plurality of voters wanted this outcome. He still has wide support among them.

It is true that foreign powers have been spreading propaganda in his favor, and the result is a weakening of the country. But that's not the result of one person betraying the nation. It's the result of American beliefs about what their nation is and should be.


Sadly the other power here is turbotax/intuit :(


I was going to say, Intuit could simply have given/owe Musk a solid favor for this.


As is the case that Trump, Musk, Vance and Thiel are Russian assets.

It’s just common sense to use Trumps own words.

Just remember that as these people drag us into a war for “peace”


The term for them is useful idiots not assets. The democrats did enormous damage to the Ukrainian cause pushing the russia hoax in 2017/18. Steele assumed there was competent intelligence analysts to analyse what he collected but instead it was politicians.


The other guy's point is that Russia is not a hoax and we'll see that when the files are opened up.


The most likely explanation is fraud


Why hasn’t the US announced anything like this?


As it should be, a political executive branch is not a democracy it’s a monarchy


a "monarchy" with checks and balances

>. Article II, Section 2 empowers the President to nominate and, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to appoint the principal officers of the United States, as well as some subordinate officers .

Yes, there is a process: https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R44083/6


This is amazing fun!


Duopoly’s produce excessive regulation as a means of protection.

Duopolies grow out slow growth, once the pie stops growing stealing customers is hard and is a zero sum game, reaching a comfortable stasis which then becomes the status quo is how organisms in these environments behave


> comfortable stasis

man, someone needs to disrupt the elevator business.

For example, why can't personal homes have elevators? The arguments of older people not being able to take stairs or getting hurt apply at home.

Or maybe busboys for groceries from the garage to the kitchen? Make them go sideways like the enterprise (the ncc-1701 enterprise)


Home elevators are a thing. We had one in our previous house, as did many other homes in the neighborhood. They are not terribly expensive, about $12k/floor during construction.


Not the US, but my dad just got one installed in his two story home, cost him around US$25k for installation of the lift/elevator itself, although he incurred a few grand more on modifications to create a space to install it in (would have been more but he did some of them himself). Not a new house, around 40-50 years old. In part, he got the idea because one of his neighbours had already done it. Plus his partner has dementia and climbing stairs has been becoming an ever increasing challenge for her.


We saw a new house with an elevator when we were looking, but it seemed to be an accessibility quota thing, I don’t want to think what it costs to maintain and what kind of inspections it needs.


Generally home eaevators are made of things that don't need inspections. Screws will last for decades without issues and when they fail rescue workers can get you out. Those systems are too slow and expensive for use commercial buildings but good enough for a short house. Thus commercial buildings will use a cable which is cheaper and faster but they stretch and break over time so you must do safety inspection. (a house sized screw is under a grand so not really a big factor in price, but that much cable will get several floors.

some commercial builings use hydraulic elevators which when they break just slowly lower you to the bottom floor . Again much less inspections needed because they are desirned safe. but the slow speed and cost mean only a few floors are possible


Cable systems are not cheap. The biggest issue with cables is the cores dry out. Hydraulic doesn't have to be slow by any means and they dont just seep down unless you blow a seal on the cylinder. Even then it would take an hour under a full load to move a story. Thats a lot of hydraulic fluid to displace. Hydraulic elevators are also prone to issues with cold temperature as the oil can become quite viscous when not in regular use.


I was thinking a hose break not a seal which would fall much faster. Which is why you would design them slow - if a hose breaks they are still a safe fall. (of course if you make them fast then you need more inspection, a trade off)

That said I'm not an elevator expert. The details I've given so far is about all I know. So if/when someone claims to be an expert and contradicts me - well they could be right.


Maintenance was essentially zero. No regular official inspections needed, but we had an elevator company come out every 3-4 years for a general inspection. Ours was a 3 story hydraulic unit.


I would ask kindly that nobody 'disrupt' the elevators I use to go into work.


How can a duopoly produce regulation? That'd be straight out corruption unless someone came up with a new word for it that suddenly made that legal, moral, and efficient.


Lobbying has a pretty pronounced effect and is completely legal


Your are conflating asset price inflation and cost inflation, they are not the same. Apple could lose $2T in market cap next week, the cost of the fab would not be discounted in the same way.


Ok, but let's say the scenario is that Apple, Google, Microsoft need to build a chip plant for 0.5nm chips. They need $1 trillion.

If each company is worth $20 trillion in 20 years, they can easily raise $1 trillion together by selling some shares or using their shares as leverage or just straight up using their cash flow. I'm simplifying things by ignoring inflation, but you get the point.

The bottom line is, if capitalism thinks a $1 trillion fab will produce more than $1 trillion in value, it will happen.


This appears to be missing the forest for the trees.

Which is to say, if Rock's law continues to hold, it doesn't matter if some global consortium can pull together $1T for a new fab; can they pull together $2T four years later? And $4T four years after that? And $8T? $16T? To say that a doubling at this rate is sustainable is to suggest that you more than double the value at each step. At some point this can clearly not be the case, unless you want to posit a world where going from one process node to the next literally doubles the entire productive output of the human race.

Absent some unforeseeable technological breakthrough, at some point it has to slow down, either slowly, or drastically, or otherwise stop altogether. And for anyone who's currently middle age or younger, it's currently projected to happen in your lifetime.


Arbitration is just another power grab by companies, originally the government would keep this sort of excess and greed in check, as we have successively dismantled that capability the people of this country had to turn to the courts to seek redress and enforce the cost of consequences of mismanagement back on to the balance sheets of the companies via legal liabilities.

This was supposed to be the mechanism that enforced market penalization envisaged by capitalism, especially in sectors where choice was limited or no other options existed.

Companies got tired of having to deal with lawsuits that resulted from the misbehavior of their organizations so they started pushing binding arbitration clauses, and because no one gives a fuck about the people in this country they have been able to push this as an effective and cheap mechanism to shut customers up and remove their rights.

However you feel about corporations, they are entities that exists only because our social contract allows them to, they haven’t always existed and if we keep granting them or allowing them greater rights and freedoms than the actual people in this country, they may not always exist.


Arbitration makes sense when you think about how costly the court system is. The problem is that the defendant gets to choose the arbiter, so its not a fair system. If the arbiter was neutral I think arbitration would generally be better than the traditional court system in many cases as its easier to use without legal representation.


The "defense" would argue that the arbitrator was mutually selected when the contract was signed, because the "plantiff" agreed to the contract terms.

The fact that the contract was non-negotiable should have made it a "contract of adhesion" where the plaintiff is recognized to have little choice in the details and the courts should provide scrutiny to ensure that they were equitable. But the supreme court has decided that "contracts of adhesion" don't really exist because you always had the choice to not have a cell phone or internet service or a job.


> its easier to use without legal representation

Not really. Any corporation will be represented in an arbitration by lawyers. The arbiter will likely be a lawyer. You will be bamboozled by their arguments and the best you can hope for is to make a reasonably clear statement of your claim and hope that the arbiter doesn't agree with some technical argument the other side has.

And (I don't know if it always works this way) you will take turns speaking with the arbiter, you will not directly hear or be able to question/challenge what the the other party is saying.


> Arbitration makes sense when you think about how costly the court system is.

The court system isn't required to be trash. That's like how we made immigration so impossible that we just let people in illegally. It's a pretense. If official justice is so burdensome that we have to create extensive private legal systems, we should figure out a sane way to do things.

People who have the power to make decisions prefer it this way.


The court system is expensive because it’s the wrong mechanism to address this aspect of corporate and monopoly power, frankly all companies have gotten too large they aren’t efficient at any thing other than redistribution of the fruits of labor increasingly unfairly all the way up the organizational chart.

The fact that no-one fails no matter the egregiousness of their actions or behaviors is absurd.


Well sadly, the mechanism made to disrupt such monopolies will probably be crippled in 6-12 months, maybe even sooner. We're definitely in a plutocracy .


Because those mechanisms have been working so well for the past four years?


Yep big companies basically have too much capital to fail. They own distribution channels they seek rent on. No one else can get ahead of them. A small company making a mistake will die. A large company will not even notice it.


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