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Exactly. I think some HNers would be amazed if they read the terms associated with Tesla doing business in China.


Can you post or link to them?


I can't find a source, but the main one I remember is that all profits made in China had to stay in China.

Edit: this is something I read on a comment here and seem totally unsubstantiated. However Bloomberg reports some of the conditions here. https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-07-30/tesla...

It seems they have a pretty big sword hanging over there head, but I don't know how it compares to the usual conditions.


Hey, it's the guy who called Tesla a "good corporate citizen" just a few months ago. Let's add: breaking stay-at-home orders, called the US government "fascist" while praising China, hired people to hack the personal computers of a whistleblower (as reported in a recent deposition filing), extorted the California government, and forced their workers back to the factory floor amid the pandemic to the list of "good" things.


Still stand by what I said. COVID response by Alameda County was overblown (including extended stay at home orders), California chose not to provide $600k in training funding to SpaceX after Tesla and SpaceX have created tens of thousands of jobs in the state (because they're non-union shops), and Fremont is following rigorous guidelines to mitigate the threat of COVID infections on the factory floor. Your only legitimate complaint is pursuing a whistleblower (that's fair, and uncalled for on Tesla's part).

How unreasonable must your jurisdiction be before you're permitted to take your business elsewhere and it isn't slandered as "extortion"? OSHA regulations apply in all 50 states, and both taxes and land costs are legitimately lower in Texas. Is every other company that has moved out of California extortionist?


Being that Alameda County (and neighboring Santa Clara County) have the highest number of COVID cases in the Bay Area[1], I would argue that their response was not overblown and likely had numbers to back why they were being aggressive.

[1] https://abc7news.com/bay-area-coronavirus-update-california-...


<100 deaths & <3k cases total in a county with 1.66 million people is noise compared to the usual suspects.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/states/california/califor...


So now your argument is that Alameda County's health measures worked and we should listen to medical experts when it comes to infectious disease management. Seems like you're trying to have it both ways.


I don't get how you can think it is overblown. Is that just because you personally haven't gotten horribly sick or have someone you know died? We have over 100,000 deaths already and it is still rising, and is likely only a fraction of the real numbers since testing is still shitty and unavailable for the vast majority of people. Nursing homes near me have had literally 1/3 of their total occupancy die from covid.

If quarantine procedures are done correctly, the result should be nobody notices anything at all and they think it is overblown. But I don't think we are anywhere near that point right now even, it seems like denial to me to pretend like we aren't in the middle of a shit storm.


>I think the rule with Elon Musk is all his estimates are extremely optimistic and you need to multiply them by two or three to get closer to reality.

What about all the promises that have been made that never came to fruition? Do we just exclude those from this formula?


Did he say "I promise"?


>A lot of folks on HN seems to be approaching this whole situation from the I have a ton of money, can work from home, have a car mental model.

You think poor people are using Uber to get around?


No, they are the ones driving it. And now they will be out of their job.


>Our lockdowns were so badly done they didn't even decrease the daily case count.

Is it any wonder? Look at the comments here. Look at guys like Elon Musk breaking quarantine for economic reasons and getting praised for it. Conspiracies abound.

This didn't happen in less partisan countries. Like absolutely everything else in the US, the lockdown became a political issue, for and against it.

Where I'm from, everyone took it seriously and in a matter of weeks we got down to ZERO active cases. Then again, we don't hate people who have different politics.


its not just political. The rich and powerful have too much influence. Countries with high income equality are the ones with successful lockdowns.

When your president is one of the richest men in the world its hard to convince leadership to shut down the economy.

And the US is pretty much unique with the whole "corporation is a person" nonsense


>There won’t be any more farmers in the future but only farming corporations.

Is this any different than, "pretty soon there won't be any local movie rental places (or retail places), it'll just be content delivery corporations"?

I do share concerns about this kind of movement, and think it needs to be done judiciously, in every industry. However, I do not agree that just because you're "small" or "independent" you are inherently better or care more. There are pros and cons. People are people and don't become "evil" by working for larger firms.

Silicon Valley seems to be very suspicious of corporate consolidation in every industry, but turns a blind eye as Facebook/Google/Amazon do it on a scale rarely ever seen.


> People are people and don't become "evil" by working for larger firms.

The problem isn't that people working for larger firms are evil. They simply don't have a say in how things are run. Small independent businesses give back to their communities. Large corporations rarely even attempt to do the same and when they do it is ineffectual because it is centralised and bureaucratic.


But they sponsor charity and community events...


There's a fundamental difference between food and movies. Food is a basic necessity and quality food is essential to health. Commodity crops aren't quality food.


> Is this any different than, "pretty soon there won't be any local movie rental places (or retail places), it'll just be content delivery corporations"?

BTW, there is still one Blockbuster open [1].

[1] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/n7wwnq/the-worlds-last-bl...


I guess it's like there won't be movies any more, only netflix originals.


>Why do people conclude that without making a valuation?

Most retail investors are not making any valuations whatsoever. The investment criteria is "this company's future is bright/bad", even though price is the most important factor. Then, recent momentum makes you look good...for now.


>Carmakers are also defined as a COVID19 critical industry, and every other carmaker manufacturing in the United States is either open, or capable of open today. This puts Tesla at a serious disadvantage.

So locking down is just "locking down", but arbitrarily classifying car building as essential during a massive economic downtown is a-okay with you? Seems reasonable.

>and every other carmaker manufacturing in the United States is either open, or capable of open today.

Wrong, many are opening on May 18th, which is when the government of CA would have opened Tesla. They couldn't wait 10 days.

>This puts Tesla at a serious disadvantage.

First of all, what does the health of the public have to do with the fairness of car competition?

Second, I thought Tesla had unlimited money and unlimited demand? What's the issue if they're closed for a few weeks?


>What's the issue if they're closed for a few weeks?

If you think a few weeks is all its going to take you arent paying attention to the lack of testing capacity or the lack of a viable vaccine.

6 months minimum and likely 18 months is how long things will take to get testing or a vaccine in place ( if one is actually viable )

How many weeks have already passed ?


The podcast was boring nonsense. Elon or China claiming things don't make them true.


May 18th, the exact date Alameda County was going to allow Tesla to open until Musk had another hissy fit.


Apparently Alameda County was already working/planning on having Tesla resume operations on May 18th as well. But Musk had a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that they had different rules in place than the State(which listed manufacturing as resuming on the 18th prior) and, as he often does, made the situation worse by his rash instincts.

It's clear his current instincts, or at least under certain mental states prone to shifting, is that Tesla knows better than Alameda County. Who are they to doubt Tesla's amazing back-to-work plan that worked in China?! Except Musk and Tesla are not in charge of public health. They are not elected officials that are on the line for ensuring a Tesla outbreak doesn't spread to the rest of the county/public.

It takes time to for the government to vet plans and coordinate this stuff. The tweet was unnecessary.


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