> They brought products that, while not top quality, had decent quality for an unbeatable price

In my mind, Behringer didn't revolutionized anything, but rather iterated their way to fame. None of the stuff they release is really "innovative" except when you consider the price, as your comment allude to.

Not to say that isn't an achievement in itself, to build same quality gear for cheap, but I'm not sure "revolutionized" is a word I'd use to describe them.

The word has been historically used to represent a new group of people being empowered. And Behringer has empowered poor and hobbyst musicians like no one else in recent memory. That's a revolution in my book.

Huh, I guess my history been different, I always understood "innovative" as something like "new and different".

Making something cheaper can be innovative, depending on how you achieved that. But if you launched a product that is the same as a competitor only because it's cheaper, because your company is funded by VCs who can continuously inject cash to bleed your competitor, I wouldn't call that "innovative" at all.

But if you instead had figured out a way to actually create the same hardware but in a cheaper way, so that's why the price is cheaper, then you did innovative in the creation process, but I still wouldn't call the finished product innovative, I'd be more focused on the process itself.

One of you is talking about a technical revolution, that changes what things are or how things are made.

The other is talking about market revolution, where market dynamics change, typically by lowering the price.

Yeah, I think that's a fair characterization.

The word used in the original comment was "revolutionized" and in reference to "the market", not "innovative" and not in reference to product functionality.

One could make an argument that companies like Behringer, by „selling the dream“ - even if they sell it cheaper than others - are part of what makes musicians poor ;)

Cannot afford a real Jupiter-8? Now you can! And finally you will have success!

(Narrator: They did not succeed)

... That makes no sense. The value of an instrument isn't what makes a successful musician successful. The best musicians can make the cheapest sounding instrument sound amazing. What cheaper instruments offers is the opportunity for someone to even have a chance.

that is the point. It is easy to buy another 'toy'. It is tedious to practice using what you have. Thus many buy instrunents persuing sucess.

you need something to work with and despite great musicians sounding good on junk quality does sometimes sound better in ways you cannot compensate for. Also even if you can make cheap sound good it may be ergonomically harmful, or otherwise be a struggle. Thus it is sometimes justified to spend money on better.

But Behringer is mostly selling clones of famous (and expensive) synths.

You don’t need these expensive synths.

But md point is that you wouldn’t even need the clones of Behringer.

Those synths are famous and expensive because they're an important part of musical culture. E.g. if you want to make dance music it's likely you want 808- or 909-style drums. You could use samples or software simulations, but I think the hardware UI makes a difference. It's easier to follow the idioms of a genre when you're working in a similar way to the originators of the genre.

> It's easier to follow the idioms of a genre when you're working in a similar way to the originators of the genre.

This is essentially what I was after. Behringer (and others) are selling you the dream of reaching the echelons of those genre-defining originators.

But you won't. Having a Jupiter-8 clone or even an original will not make you another Giorgio Moroder or Nick Rhodes and having a Linn clone won't make you another Prince. Those synths and drum machines became famous because they existed at the right time in the right place (and under the fingers of the right people).

Behringer is selling nostalgia. Sure, you don't have to shell out the equivalent of a small car, but looking at what people are producing with these devices, for 99% of the customers, it will not bring them any nearer to their dreams.

> Those synths are famous and expensive because they're an important part of musical culture

Not only that, many synths are expensive at launch because of R&D and production costs (considering the small amount they produce), and impossible they're already part of "musical culture" as they just launched. TE and Elektron stuff is expensive at launch as just one counter-example.

But Teenage Engineering or Elektron are putting out original creative stuff. Even if it is built around vintage components like the SidStation (which is still one of the devices I really regret having sold)

All good musical instrument product development requires iteration.

So this aspect should not necessarily be viewed as dis-innovative.

Where they ‘revolutionized’ the ‘evolutionary iteration’ of product development, is they made affordable copies of other products that had already been through a few classic iterations.

>Cheap/Price/etc.

There’s the rub. First, it has to be affordable to the target audience. Second, it has to be available: i.e. can I just walk out of the shop with it right now?

Cheap Behringer gear fits many a budding rock stars’ meager budget. Behringer has capitalized on their reach by developing that market at a clip which far out-paces the bigger/prestigious brands.

What’s great is how much Behringer is agitating the Superbooth universe. It is so fun to see folks of all ages learning the old synth classic architectures, even if it is on re-implementations rather than the old planks, themselves.

Synthesizers, thanks to Behringer and other players in the market, are now not so esoteric and inaccessible as they once were, but rather well established as a 21st century musical instrument standard.

There is much mirth to be gained from observing a 9 year old kid figure out how to make the JUNO/SH101/etc. architecture do extraordinary things, without worrying about the drink-spill factor, or other antiquated notions.

Well, did IBM actually bring something new to the market?

As far as I know, IBM did have impressive technical innovations at first, like the Vacuum Tube Multiplier, but then at one point they stopped innovating and instead focused on basically business optimizations.

So yeah, I guess a bit similar to IBM, but that isn't the full story.

Yes, I agree.

Disclaimer: long-time musical instrument fan boy and designer, developer, with some experience in the industry working with a couple of well-known brands.

Behringer did what was there, sitting, ripe for picking: they made musical instruments standard (through copying) and they made them cheap - vital factors that musicians require in order to have a decent instrument/setup/workstation/etc.

Behringer revealed the huge situation with the musical-instrument business - it is very, very hard to be successful without pushing the expense on the end-user. Synths which might cost ~$180 to build are sold for ~$1800, for a reason: there are a lot of mouths to feed, metaphorically speaking.

And then, there is the brick and mortar factor - which is a massive thing, even still today, and I mean massive inasmuch as anyone paying rent so you can have a place to walk in and demo an instrument, is going to want to get that rent paid, too. And yes, there are still brick and mortar businesses around - barely. Internet has eaten everyone’s margins; but there are still hard core musician markets where an in-store demo is preferred.

So, Behringers machinations have played very well into that formula. Cheaper gear means better distribution; Behringer is bringing life back to some brick and mortar shops. I won’t mention names, but if you’re reading this and understanding it, you probably know where.

And let’s address the ‘cheap’ as in $ versus ‘cheap’ as in fragility. Behringer gear is actually kind of robust. They’ve put energy into making devices that Just Plain Work™. And since they offer value for money, why not get two or three of those “<mixers><eurorack modules><guitars pedals>&etc”.. might as well, “since I’m in the shop anyway”.

This doesn’t mean they don’t deserve some suspicion for the shenanigans, but when you see a teenager learning music get his first working home rig set up, and its a fair bit of Behringer gear, you will see the winning equation.

That is the start of a life-long passion for music, one hopes, and who knows what the other manufacturers of musical instruments will do, to respond to those shenanigans.